Paulownia as tonewood

[Bob]

Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars? I'm more interested in solid
bodies, but the general characteristics probably pertain to both solid
and acoustic.

The wood is ultra light, so I'd suspect that it would sound much like
swamp ash, with kind of a mid scoop and fast 'ping' to the top end.
(Not really what I'm looking for, hence the question. I'm more
interested in richer mids, but paulownia's weight and resonance would
make it attractive).

Can anyone comment?

[Ed Edelenbos]

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars? I'm more interested in solid
bodies, but the general characteristics probably pertain to both solid
and acoustic.
The wood is ultra light, so I'd suspect that it would sound much like
swamp ash, with kind of a mid scoop and fast 'ping' to the top end.
(Not really what I'm looking for, hence the question. I'm more
interested in richer mids, but paulownia's weight and resonance would
make it attractive).
Can anyone comment?

I tried the same question about 10 years ago... with about the same
response.

Ed

[JimLowther]

Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars? �I'm more interested in solid
bodies, but the general characteristics probably pertain to both solid
and acoustic.
The wood is ultra light, so I'd suspect that it �would sound much like
swamp ash, with kind of a mid scoop and fast 'ping' to the top end.
(Not really what I'm looking for, hence the question. I'm more
interested in richer mids, but paulownia's weight and resonance would
make it attractive). �
Can anyone comment?

I cannot comment over much, but Paulownia is the wood commonly used
for soundboards of traditional Chinese stringed instruments such as
Pipa, Liuqin, and Guzheng, probably others. Liuqin and Pipa have flat
soundboards, and the Paulownia is noticeably ring porous, much like
Sassafrass and Ash. On the Guzheng (that 16-25 string zither that is
the progenitor of the similar Japanese Koto) the soundboard is made
from a mature Paulownia of sufficent size that the curved soundboard
follows the curve of the log. As I understand it, if this is done
correctly the porous ring portion of the wood is not much used.

I keep trying to bring a piece back from my trips to China to have its
acoustic properties tested, but I have had no luck to date. I see the
trees growing frequently (they have huge heart-shaped leaves, like a
foot across). However, logging timber is no longer allowed in China,
and even urban trees are more likely to be moved than cut. (I have
watched a row of 40 mature Chinese Pistache dug out and balled and
burlapped by hand--root balls 12 foot across! All to make way for a
wider sidewalk.)

I think most Paulownia used in traditional Chinese instruments comes
from Taiwan now, but I couldn't tell you a source. This tree has been
heavily promoted in the US as a fast growing miracle source of
timber. It really is an extremely fast growing tree (on the order of
ten feet a year in some climates). However, I think those who have
tried Paulownia plantations have yet to see a significant market for
the mature trees or timber. Former president Jimmy Carter is a
Paulownia plantation owner, and has cautioned novice planters not to
stand over the little trees they plant to watch them grow lest they be
hit by the tree on its way up.

I do not make solid body guitars and I have no opinion how Paulownia
would work in that application. I see no reason not to try, although
it would get beat up rather easily. Paulownia wood is very, very
light in weight, maybe like Willow or Catalpa.

I have been curious how Palownia would work as an acoustic guitar
soundboard. If it did work the fast growth of this stuff would make
it imminently sustainable. In general, I get rather skeptical about
the quality of any fast growth timber for use as tonewood, but I
wouldn't mind being wrong.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

[Jack Campin - bogus address]

Post by JimLowther

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I cannot comment over much, but Paulownia is the wood commonly used
for soundboards of traditional Chinese stringed instruments such as
Pipa, Liuqin, and Guzheng, probably others.

Isn't it also used for Go boards? - the traditional design is a solid
block hollowed out underneath to produce a nice resonant plonk when
you put a stone down, it's basically a percussion instrument you play
very slowly.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob [phone]
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

[Steve]

Post by Jack Campin - bogus address

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

Isn't it also used for Go boards? - the traditional design is a solid
block hollowed out underneath to produce a nice resonant plonk when
you put a stone down, it's basically a percussion instrument you play
very slowly.

I used to play Go a lot many years ago. I heard the hollow underneath
was where you put the head of a kibbutzer.

--Steve in Roseville

[Alan D.]

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.

FWIW,
Alan D.

[David Hajicek]

Better watch out that some Ninja's don't sneak up on you for that! ;>)

Dave Hajicek

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

[JimLowther]

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. :-(

I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. (Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)

How well did your friend find it to work for his dulcimer?

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

[Alan D.]

Post by JimLowther
It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. :-(
I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. (Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)
How well did your friend find it to work for his dulcimer?
Best wishes,
Dr. Jim Lowther

Howdy Jim, I never did hear if she used it or not, so no data there, sorry. You
are right that for an electric you would want to cap it at least on the front.
It might be quite good for that. Some of the balsa available for use in
aircraft is very stiff and actually has good tone. IIRR someone was making
violins out of it and they were very well received once he got folks past the
idea of a balsa instrument. If he didn't tell them it was balsa they were even
more impressed <BG>. I think this was in an article in either the GAL or ASIA
pubs in a discussion about a show. Sorry, I don't recall anything further.

Alan D.

[Tony Done]

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. :-(

I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. (Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)

I don't know if the examples are Paulownia, but the recording links in the
Wikipedia article on the Guqin sound pretty good to me - especially given
that they use silk or nylon strings. Could it simply be that they prefer the
tone to that of the softwoods we use in the west, maybe at the expense of
volume?

Tony D

[JimLowther]

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. �If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. �Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. �:-(
I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. �I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. �(Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)
I don't know if the examples are Paulownia, but the recording links in the
Wikipedia article on the Guqin sound pretty good to me - especially given
that they use silk or nylon strings. Could it simply be that they prefer the
tone to that of the softwoods we use in the west, maybe at the expense of
volume?
Tony D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Tony!

We have to careful not to mix apples and oranges. The Guqin is also a
zither, but designed and played differently than the Guzheng. The
Guqin is a 7-stringed instrument in which the top of the body is used
more or less like a fretless fingerboard to stop the strings for
different notes. This instrument does not use Paulownia at all (that
I know). The soundboard/fingerboard is preferably Sandalwood. It is
the Guzheng that uses Paulownia as the soundboard. Paulownia would
just not last on a Guqin.

Both instruments are wonderful in the hands of a good player. I have
been fortunate to have been able to listen to both in live and
intimate performance, each has a unique voice. The Guzheng is much
more common, however. The Guqin (considered to be a scholar's
instrument) barely survived some of the cultural events of the mid-
late 20th century. After fear that it would die out altogether there
has been something of a resurgence, but still lags other instruments
in popularity.

If you watched the movie "Hero," the instrument played during the
fight in the rainy courtyard is a Guqin.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

[Tony Done]

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers.
Perhaps
as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. �If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. �Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. �:-(
I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. �I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. �(Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)
I don't know if the examples are Paulownia, but the recording links in the
Wikipedia article on the Guqin sound pretty good to me - especially given
that they use silk or nylon strings. Could it simply be that they prefer the
tone to that of the softwoods we use in the west, maybe at the expense of
volume?
Tony D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Tony!

We have to careful not to mix apples and oranges. The Guqin is also a
zither, but designed and played differently than the Guzheng. The
Guqin is a 7-stringed instrument in which the top of the body is used
more or less like a fretless fingerboard to stop the strings for
different notes. This instrument does not use Paulownia at all (that
I know). The soundboard/fingerboard is preferably Sandalwood. It is
the Guzheng that uses Paulownia as the soundboard. Paulownia would
just not last on a Guqin.

Both instruments are wonderful in the hands of a good player. I have
been fortunate to have been able to listen to both in live and
intimate performance, each has a unique voice. The Guzheng is much
more common, however. The Guqin (considered to be a scholar's
instrument) barely survived some of the cultural events of the mid-
late 20th century. After fear that it would die out altogether there
has been something of a resurgence, but still lags other instruments
in popularity.

If you watched the movie "Hero," the instrument played during the
fight in the rainy courtyard is a Guqin.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

Hi Jim, I haven't seen you posting for a while. Usenet seems to be fading
into non-existence, but I like it better than moderated forums - I'm
something (not much!) of an anarchist at heart. Some Taiwanese friends of
mine have what I think is a guzheng, it reminds me of a koto. It still
leaves the question as to why the softwoods haven't been adopted for
soundboards in eastern instruments. - I'll go with more harmonic complexity
at the expense of volume, but I couldn't argue that case strongly.

I'm not particularly interested in oriental instruments, but the guqin and
the shakuhachi captured my imagination a bit. They are both very
sophisticated instruments in different ways.

They was a big promo on Paulownia growing here in Oz a few years ago, but it
seems to have fizzled out. There are a few plantations in my area. They
seems to get to small trees, about 8" diameter trunk, very fast, then stop
growing. They look pretty in the flowering season though.

Tony D

[Ed Edelenbos]

Post by JimLowther

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers.
Perhaps
as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. �If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. �Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. �:-(
I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. �I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. �(Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)
I don't know if the examples are Paulownia, but the recording links in the
Wikipedia article on the Guqin sound pretty good to me - especially given
that they use silk or nylon strings. Could it simply be that they prefer the
tone to that of the softwoods we use in the west, maybe at the expense of
volume?
Tony D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Tony!
We have to careful not to mix apples and oranges. The Guqin is also a
zither, but designed and played differently than the Guzheng. The
Guqin is a 7-stringed instrument in which the top of the body is used
more or less like a fretless fingerboard to stop the strings for
different notes. This instrument does not use Paulownia at all (that
I know). The soundboard/fingerboard is preferably Sandalwood. It is
the Guzheng that uses Paulownia as the soundboard. Paulownia would
just not last on a Guqin.
Both instruments are wonderful in the hands of a good player. I have
been fortunate to have been able to listen to both in live and
intimate performance, each has a unique voice. The Guzheng is much
more common, however. The Guqin (considered to be a scholar's
instrument) barely survived some of the cultural events of the mid-
late 20th century. After fear that it would die out altogether there
has been something of a resurgence, but still lags other instruments
in popularity.
If you watched the movie "Hero," the instrument played during the
fight in the rainy courtyard is a Guqin.
Best wishes,
Dr. Jim Lowther
Hi Jim, I haven't seen you posting for a while. Usenet seems to be fading
into non-existence, but I like it better than moderated forums - I'm
something (not much!) of an anarchist at heart. Some Taiwanese friends of
mine have what I think is a guzheng, it reminds me of a koto. It still
leaves the question as to why the softwoods haven't been adopted for
soundboards in eastern instruments. - I'll go with more harmonic
complexity at the expense of volume, but I couldn't argue that case
strongly.
I'm not particularly interested in oriental instruments, but the guqin and
the shakuhachi captured my imagination a bit. They are both very
sophisticated instruments in different ways.
They was a big promo on Paulownia growing here in Oz a few years ago, but
it seems to have fizzled out. There are a few plantations in my area. They
seems to get to small trees, about 8" diameter trunk, very fast, then stop
growing. They look pretty in the flowering season though.
Tony D

FWIW, a 16" (+/-) tree fell in my yard several years ago. I made a bunch of
solid wood kalimbas with wood I harvested from it. They were some of the
most resonant *solid* wood kalimbas I ever heard.

Pieces of paulownia are incredibly musical and resonant for softwood. They
don't hold up to any beating on, though. They are really quick growing and
are something like 4-8 lines per inch as opposed to decent spruce that is
18-24 per inch.

Ed

[Tony Done]

Post by Ed Edelenbos

Post by JimLowther

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and
I
was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent
it
with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers.
Perhaps
as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. �If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. �Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. �:-(
I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. �I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. �(Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)
I don't know if the examples are Paulownia, but the recording links in the
Wikipedia article on the Guqin sound pretty good to me - especially given
that they use silk or nylon strings. Could it simply be that they prefer the
tone to that of the softwoods we use in the west, maybe at the expense of
volume?
Tony D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Tony!
We have to careful not to mix apples and oranges. The Guqin is also a
zither, but designed and played differently than the Guzheng. The
Guqin is a 7-stringed instrument in which the top of the body is used
more or less like a fretless fingerboard to stop the strings for
different notes. This instrument does not use Paulownia at all (that
I know). The soundboard/fingerboard is preferably Sandalwood. It is
the Guzheng that uses Paulownia as the soundboard. Paulownia would
just not last on a Guqin.
Both instruments are wonderful in the hands of a good player. I have
been fortunate to have been able to listen to both in live and
intimate performance, each has a unique voice. The Guzheng is much
more common, however. The Guqin (considered to be a scholar's
instrument) barely survived some of the cultural events of the mid-
late 20th century. After fear that it would die out altogether there
has been something of a resurgence, but still lags other instruments
in popularity.
If you watched the movie "Hero," the instrument played during the
fight in the rainy courtyard is a Guqin.
Best wishes,
Dr. Jim Lowther
Hi Jim, I haven't seen you posting for a while. Usenet seems to be fading
into non-existence, but I like it better than moderated forums - I'm
something (not much!) of an anarchist at heart. Some Taiwanese friends of
mine have what I think is a guzheng, it reminds me of a koto. It still
leaves the question as to why the softwoods haven't been adopted for
soundboards in eastern instruments. - I'll go with more harmonic
complexity at the expense of volume, but I couldn't argue that case
strongly.
I'm not particularly interested in oriental instruments, but the guqin
and the shakuhachi captured my imagination a bit. They are both very
sophisticated instruments in different ways.
They was a big promo on Paulownia growing here in Oz a few years ago, but
it seems to have fizzled out. There are a few plantations in my area.
They seems to get to small trees, about 8" diameter trunk, very fast,
then stop growing. They look pretty in the flowering season though.
Tony D

FWIW, a 16" (+/-) tree fell in my yard several years ago. I made a bunch
of solid wood kalimbas with wood I harvested from it. They were some of
the most resonant *solid* wood kalimbas I ever heard.
Pieces of paulownia are incredibly musical and resonant for softwood.
They don't hold up to any beating on, though. They are really quick
growing and are something like 4-8 lines per inch as opposed to decent
spruce that is 18-24 per inch.
Ed

I would risk it for an electric guitar body, given its credentials, and just
live with the fact that it will get a lot of dings quickly. - Like cedar
tops on acoustics.

Tony D

[JimLowther]

Post by Tony Done

Post by JimLowther

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and
I
was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent
it
with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers.
Perhaps
as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

It is very soft, but not quite so soft as Balsa. If I used it for a
solid body I would probably cap the top (and maye the back) and just
use it for the core. Balsa might work just as well, if not better,
but that really isn't part of my world. :-(
I have never found a soft hardwood (not really an oxymoron) that taps
anywhere as well as Spruce, Cedar, or Redwood. I think cell structure
(which is much different between hard woods and softwoods) must also
make a difference. (Which is more or less, wnthropologically
speaking, why I have been curious that the Chinese decided Paulownia
was a more viable soundboard material than local sofwoods.)
I don't know if the examples are Paulownia, but the recording links in the
Wikipedia article on the Guqin sound pretty good to me - especially given
that they use silk or nylon strings. Could it simply be that they prefer the
tone to that of the softwoods we use in the west, maybe at the expense of
volume?
Tony D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Tony!
We have to careful not to mix apples and oranges. �The Guqin is also a
zither, but designed and played differently than the Guzheng. �The
Guqin is a 7-stringed instrument in which the top of the body is used
more or less like a fretless fingerboard to stop the strings for
different notes. �This instrument does not use Paulownia at all (that
I know). �The soundboard/fingerboard is preferably Sandalwood. �It is
the Guzheng that uses Paulownia as the soundboard. �Paulownia would
just not last on a Guqin.
Both instruments are wonderful in the hands of a good player. �I have
been fortunate to have been able to listen to both in live and
intimate performance, each has a unique voice. �The Guzheng is much
more common, however. �The Guqin (considered to be a scholar's
instrument) barely survived some of the cultural events of the mid-
late 20th century. �After fear that it would die out altogether there
has been something of a resurgence, but still lags other instruments
in popularity.
If you watched the movie "Hero," the instrument played during the
fight in the rainy courtyard is a Guqin.
Best wishes,
Dr. Jim Lowther
Hi Jim, I haven't seen you posting for a while. Usenet seems to be fading
into non-existence, but I like it better than moderated forums - I'm
something (not much!) of an anarchist at heart. Some Taiwanese friends of
mine have what I think is a guzheng, it reminds me of a koto. It still
leaves the question as to why the softwoods haven't been adopted for
soundboards in eastern instruments. - I'll go with more harmonic
complexity at the expense of volume, but I couldn't argue that case
strongly.
I'm not particularly interested in oriental instruments, but the guqin
and the shakuhachi captured my imagination a bit. They are both very
sophisticated instruments in different ways.
They was a big promo on Paulownia growing here in Oz a few years ago, but
it seems to have fizzled out. There are a few plantations in my area.
They seems to get to small trees, about 8" diameter trunk, very fast,
then stop growing. They look pretty in the flowering season though.
Tony D

FWIW, a 16" (+/-) tree fell in my yard several years ago. �I made a bunch
of solid wood kalimbas with wood I harvested from it. �They were some of
the most resonant *solid* wood kalimbas I ever heard.
Pieces of paulownia are incredibly musical and resonant for softwood.
They don't hold up to any beating on, though. �They are really quick
growing and are something like 4-8 lines per inch as opposed to decent
spruce that is 18-24 per inch.
Ed

I would risk it for an electric guitar body, given its credentials, and just
live with the fact that it will get a lot of dings quickly. - Like cedar
tops on acoustics.
Tony D- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Paulownia is significantly less durable than Cedar, though. One thing
I have noticed about Chinese stringed instruments is that the top
typically fits into rather than on top of the sides, so that there is
typically a quarter inch of much harder wood protecting the corner of
the top. A Pipa or Liuqin has a one piece shallow bowl for back and
sides. The top fits into the bowl. I think something similar is at
work with the Yuequin and Ruan, although I don't have any here to
quickly check.

My interest in Chinese plucked and other stringed instruments is that
it gives me a point of conversation with Chinese friends, although
these are "old instruments" to most younger Chinese. (I also have
learned quite a few Chinese pop tunes as wellthis is entertaining to
younger friends.) However, I have long had a curiousity about
ethnomusicology and the like, and I still marvel at both the
universality of music and the diversity of its expression.

There is also a more or less a similar push on Paulownia here in the
states as something of a wonder wood for plantation growth. I have
not heard that it slows in growth significantly when the diameter gets
to 8 inches or so, but I have not really tried growing any, either.
(I have prepared or planted hundreds of acres of Loblolly Pine in
earlier years when I was working with a program to revert idle
farmland into tree plantations.) My thought is that it is more or
less like the Emu fad a decade back. The only market for the Emus
were chicks for newbies wanting to get rich raising Emus. The market
colapsed, and here in North Central Texas Emu rancers turned teir Emus
loose, so that for some time (and maybe still) we had big herds of
feral Emus terrorizing the unsuspecting. (There has to be a B movie
plot in there somewhere.) I do not see a tremendous demand for the
wood, as it does not have qualities normally associated with a premium
timber. In some areas, though, it has become indiginized--another
foreign invader of the plant kingdom.

I think you could find some plantation or ornamental Paulownia with
even fewer than 4 lines an inch, if the published optimal growth rates
are to be believed.

I take seriously this whole idea of carbon budget, and I think it
would be great if the was a timber that grew as fast as Paulownia that
produced quality wood that could be turned into long lasting durable
wood products. I just don't know that Paulownia is it.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

[Tony Done]

My thought is that it is more or
less like the Emu fad a decade back. The only market for the Emus
were chicks for newbies wanting to get rich raising Emus. The market
colapsed, and here in North Central Texas Emu rancers turned teir Emus
loose, so that for some time (and maybe still) we had big herds of
feral Emus terrorizing the unsuspecting. (There has to be a B movie
plot in there somewhere.)

We have an interesting contrast here. Emu farms seem to be doing OK on a
small scale, because they trade on the value of the carcass products, but
the ostrich bubble burst a few years ago for the same reasons as your emus.
One of the additional problems was that you can't keep them on clay soils,
so farming them was more restricted than most folks thought. Maybe emus have
more discriminating eating habits. <g> Only yesterday morning I was
polishing/waterproofing my work boots with emu oil leather dressing. - And
very good it is too.

Tony D

[JimLowther]

�My thought is that it is more or
less like the Emu fad a decade back. �The only market for the Emus
were chicks for newbies wanting to get rich raising Emus. �The market
colapsed, and here in North Central Texas Emu rancers turned teir Emus
loose, so that for some time (and maybe still) we had big herds of
feral Emus terrorizing the unsuspecting. �(There has to be a B movie
plot in there somewhere.)
We have an interesting contrast here. Emu farms seem to be doing OK on a
small scale, because they trade on the value of the carcass products, but
the ostrich bubble burst a few years ago for the same reasons as your emus.
One of the additional problems was that you can't keep them on clay soils,
so farming them was more restricted than most folks thought. Maybe emus have
more discriminating eating habits. <g> Only yesterday morning I was
polishing/waterproofing my work boots with emu oil leather dressing. - And
very good it is too.
Tony D

I would use Emu oil, but I draw the line at baby oil.

[Tony Done]

�My thought is that it is more or
less like the Emu fad a decade back. �The only market for the Emus
were chicks for newbies wanting to get rich raising Emus. �The market
colapsed, and here in North Central Texas Emu rancers turned teir Emus
loose, so that for some time (and maybe still) we had big herds of
feral Emus terrorizing the unsuspecting. �(There has to be a B movie
plot in there somewhere.)
We have an interesting contrast here. Emu farms seem to be doing OK on a
small scale, because they trade on the value of the carcass products, but
the ostrich bubble burst a few years ago for the same reasons as your emus.
One of the additional problems was that you can't keep them on clay soils,
so farming them was more restricted than most folks thought. Maybe emus have
more discriminating eating habits. <g> Only yesterday morning I was
polishing/waterproofing my work boots with emu oil leather dressing. - And
very good it is too.
Tony D

I would use Emu oil, but I draw the line at baby oil.

<g> Here in Oz we have a vapour rub product called Goanna Oil, and it is
surprising how many folks think it is made by rendering down reptiles. The
leather dressing really is mostly emu oil though.

Tony D

[JimLowther]

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

I'm curious--has anyone done a "fingernail test to see which topwoods
dent or scratch most easily? I'm assuming that for softwoods some
variety of Spruce is most fingernail resistant, and WRC much less so,
but I would be curious how Redwood or Alaskan/Yellow Cedar fit into
the spectrum, among others.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

[David Hajicek]

Post by Alan D.

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars?

I was gifted a plank of Royal Paulowina (princess tree I believe) and I was not
impressed. It was very light weight but also quite dull sounding as compared to
spruces or cedar/redwood family. Also _very_ soft wood, I could dent it with a
fingernail easily. I gave it away to a person doing lap dulcimers. Perhaps as a
core for electrics but I'd suspect that some select balsa would be better
tonally.
FWIW,
Alan D.

I'm curious--has anyone done a "fingernail test to see which topwoods
dent or scratch most easily? I'm assuming that for softwoods some
variety of Spruce is most fingernail resistant, and WRC much less so,
but I would be curious how Redwood or Alaskan/Yellow Cedar fit into
the spectrum, among others.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther
__________________
Jim:

We'll have to come up with a standardized test. I have samples of all wood
(except paulownia). I'd suggest a ball indenter, say some standard size
like a BB and then we measure the indentation for a fixed load. That's the
tricky part. Somewhere in the range of 200 grams to a lb? We could go to a
bigger ball as the grain could be a variable otherwise. But that's kind of
what we want here?

Any suggestions?

Dave Hajicek

[Tony Done]

Post by Bob
Has anyone tried paulownia in guitars? I'm more interested in solid
bodies, but the general characteristics probably pertain to both solid
and acoustic.
The wood is ultra light, so I'd suspect that it would sound much like
swamp ash, with kind of a mid scoop and fast 'ping' to the top end.
(Not really what I'm looking for, hence the question. I'm more
interested in richer mids, but paulownia's weight and resonance would
make it attractive).
Can anyone comment?

If you want to experiment, Guitar Fetish (GFS) are selling cheap paulownia
bodies:

http://store.guitarfetish.com/liststbobrra.html

Tony D

[p***@gmail.com]

I made a tele with a paulownia body & it's still my favourite , it's featured on my FB pic. I say go for it & pls keep me posted . It's great for finger picking ...